Orgineel? Foto?lee enfield schreef:ik heb zelf al een poolse helm met adelaar
Poolse para's
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Michiel M.
- Lid
- Berichten: 2466
- Lid geworden op: 29 okt 2004, 17:01
- Locatie: Beek en Donk
- Contacteer:
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Michiel M.
- Lid
- Berichten: 2466
- Lid geworden op: 29 okt 2004, 17:01
- Locatie: Beek en Donk
- Contacteer:
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Dodo
- Lid
- Berichten: 6247
- Lid geworden op: 20 jun 2004, 11:52
- Locatie: Den Haag
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Michiel M.
- Lid
- Berichten: 2466
- Lid geworden op: 29 okt 2004, 17:01
- Locatie: Beek en Donk
- Contacteer:
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Robspad
- Lid
- Berichten: 72
- Lid geworden op: 17 apr 2005, 16:53
Very great thanks of for Maj.Cain.
Dziękuję, yes you are social - Thanks!
Regarding collar patch:
I be convinced that these patch are in 90% orginal. Little probability is to be copy. This is seldom happened model.
These patch to be in set of several orginal thing. This raise to credibility. (foto1)
To look the most popular embroidered patch so (foto2) and (foto3). These are originals in 100%.
Note attention how to look with back. This is orginal.
Very a lot of flaps are the non-standart.
To buy polish badges on ebay it is very hard. Very expensive. I look ebay treat rule this many many kopy fake.
To see orginal beret on ebay only one ebay.uk was this 3 it years back. In Poland and in England this very difficult matter. To look for many collectors. This is how victory in lotto.
Original helmet - I see only 6. And to visit many museums and private collectors.
I have several questions. I speak many veteran Polish Para.
You write :
Whether to remain original things in Holland. Be then rule?
Second matter. Polish gliderborne soldier, he carry para trousers. I be convinced that then to be rule. Standard trousers to have exceptionally individual soldiers. To be several soldiers - officer and non-commissioned officer maybe to have standard battledress trousers.
Grretings
Robert
(fot1)
(fot2)
(fot3)
Dziękuję, yes you are social - Thanks!
Regarding collar patch:
I be convinced that these patch are in 90% orginal. Little probability is to be copy. This is seldom happened model.
These patch to be in set of several orginal thing. This raise to credibility. (foto1)
To look the most popular embroidered patch so (foto2) and (foto3). These are originals in 100%.
Note attention how to look with back. This is orginal.
Very a lot of flaps are the non-standart.
To buy polish badges on ebay it is very hard. Very expensive. I look ebay treat rule this many many kopy fake.
To see orginal beret on ebay only one ebay.uk was this 3 it years back. In Poland and in England this very difficult matter. To look for many collectors. This is how victory in lotto.
Original helmet - I see only 6. And to visit many museums and private collectors.
I have several questions. I speak many veteran Polish Para.
You write :
Where from you have this information? To disremember the Polish veteran of this."And then the webbing, you can get original British webbing, only the para's used to camo their gear with blanco, the Polish webbing is a grey colour blanco, this colour is still findable on ebay or other militaria site's in the U.K."
Whether to remain original things in Holland. Be then rule?
Second matter. Polish gliderborne soldier, he carry para trousers. I be convinced that then to be rule. Standard trousers to have exceptionally individual soldiers. To be several soldiers - officer and non-commissioned officer maybe to have standard battledress trousers.
Grretings
Robert
(fot1)
(fot2)
(fot3)
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Maj.Cain
- Lid
- Berichten: 1349
- Lid geworden op: 13 okt 2004, 17:07
- Locatie: Nederland
- Contacteer:
Im sorry Robert but i have to say that i have a problem in reading and understanding your English!!
1st. I was reffering to 101st Michel's pictures of the Polish Collar insignia.
The yellow parachute, he found this picture on ebay.
I said that these ate probs fake, and am pretty sure of it!!
2nd. I think your patches look ok, they are far differn't than the ones
Michel posted!
3rd. I was telling him that if he want's to buy originaly webbing used by
the Poles, that is nearly impossible, so best thing to do is but British
khaki webbing and blanco it the same way as the Polish para's did!
4th. Gliderborne troops in my opinion did not wear the parachute trousers
but the standard p40, the polish parachute troops did wear the bd trou
sers!!
I will never insult the Polish troops as i know what good soldiers and leaders they were and had!!
So what you say with:"Where from you have this information? To disremember the Polish veteran of this." completly confuses me!!???
I do not understand what you mean by that sentance, could you be more clearly?
I was only helping the topic starter with his question!!
I have the deepest respect and sympathy for the Polish Airborne's actions at Driel, if it wern't for them the 1st Airborne lads would have been with out hope of retreating across the Rhine!!
So if by misunderstanding you have misread or misunderstood my words, i bid you my appologies, but i can't see where i would have done the harm?
Greetings,
Maj.Cain collector of British 1st Airborne Division
1st. I was reffering to 101st Michel's pictures of the Polish Collar insignia.
The yellow parachute, he found this picture on ebay.
I said that these ate probs fake, and am pretty sure of it!!
2nd. I think your patches look ok, they are far differn't than the ones
Michel posted!
3rd. I was telling him that if he want's to buy originaly webbing used by
the Poles, that is nearly impossible, so best thing to do is but British
khaki webbing and blanco it the same way as the Polish para's did!
4th. Gliderborne troops in my opinion did not wear the parachute trousers
but the standard p40, the polish parachute troops did wear the bd trou
sers!!
I will never insult the Polish troops as i know what good soldiers and leaders they were and had!!
So what you say with:"Where from you have this information? To disremember the Polish veteran of this." completly confuses me!!???
I do not understand what you mean by that sentance, could you be more clearly?
I was only helping the topic starter with his question!!
I have the deepest respect and sympathy for the Polish Airborne's actions at Driel, if it wern't for them the 1st Airborne lads would have been with out hope of retreating across the Rhine!!
So if by misunderstanding you have misread or misunderstood my words, i bid you my appologies, but i can't see where i would have done the harm?
Greetings,
Maj.Cain collector of British 1st Airborne Division
Red Devils of Arnhem/Oosterbeek
http://www.156PARA.com
http://www.156PARA.com
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Robspad
- Lid
- Berichten: 72
- Lid geworden op: 17 apr 2005, 16:53
I apologize if to be I understood bad. I apologize, but my English is very bad.
I try to clear.
1st. My sentence. Its no use about this copy from ebay.
In Poland it been possible to buy collar patch with metal badge.
Very good copy.
3rd. I speak with veterans. They disremember or khaki webbing was blanco.
What is source this information about blanco webbing ? What be then colour ?
4th. I have unit uniform order for Polish soldiers in operation Market - Garden.
Soldiers who to fly in action and soldiers who directed to action by sea and land ( under the names Seaborne Tails nr.1 and 2.) they have parachuting trousers.
Trousers battledress be packed to bag and bag go with Seaborne Tails.
Apologize, that I be to mistake. This my fault.
I know that Netherlands People are very friendly for Polish veterans.
I see this, when I to be in Holand.
All veterans which I know, they are for Dutch People very large gratitude for memory.
Greetings
Robert
I try to clear.
1st. My sentence. Its no use about this copy from ebay.
In Poland it been possible to buy collar patch with metal badge.
Very good copy.
3rd. I speak with veterans. They disremember or khaki webbing was blanco.
What is source this information about blanco webbing ? What be then colour ?
4th. I have unit uniform order for Polish soldiers in operation Market - Garden.
Soldiers who to fly in action and soldiers who directed to action by sea and land ( under the names Seaborne Tails nr.1 and 2.) they have parachuting trousers.
Trousers battledress be packed to bag and bag go with Seaborne Tails.
Apologize, that I be to mistake. This my fault.
I know that Netherlands People are very friendly for Polish veterans.
I see this, when I to be in Holand.
All veterans which I know, they are for Dutch People very large gratitude for memory.
Greetings
Robert
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asjemenou
- Moderator & Beste Avatar 2009
- Berichten: 4874
- Lid geworden op: 26 apr 2005, 16:35
- Gegeven: 55 keer
- Ontvangen: 99 keer
From an Inheritance
Hereby me response translated in English especially at the request of our Polish fellow collector.
The badges, medals and belt shown at the pictures below are from an inheritance of a Polish veteran. Maybe they are not the badges that were usually worn by the 1st Polish Independent Airborne Brigade or the 1st Polish Armoured Division but they are nice items and a 100 % original.
The aunt of an acquaintance of mine was married with a Pole. This Pole, a WWII veteran, is already passed away for many years. His Dutch wife just passed away a few years ago. After her decease they cleared out the house and these badges, medals and belt were found. These items where given to me. The family of my acquaintance asked me or I could find out his past because they are interested in it. The Polish veteran seldom spoke about his past, so for them a little is known about him. From the badges and medals I gather the following story;
After the German invasion of Poland in 1939 the Polish veteran fled to France like so many other Poles. The army belt from his inheritance could be from his own Polish pre war uniform.
In France he joined the new-formed Polish Armed Forces. He was incorporated with the Polish 2nd Rifles Division (Dywizja Strzelcow Pieszych). This Division was sent to support the French forces on the Maginot line near to the German Swiss border.
During the German invasion of France in 1940 the Polish 2nd Rifles Division fought together with the French 45 Corps at Clos du Doubs. After heavy fighting’s and being cut off by the advancing Germans, the French 45 Corps and the Polish 2nd Rifles Division were backed up to the Swiss border. The French commander decided to withdraw to Switzerland, where they were interned. For taking part in these fighting’s he should be decorated after the war with the French medals.
His in-laws are confirming his stay in Switzerland because they know that he had a relationship in that time with a Swiss woman. The Huguenin brothers at Le Locle, Switzerland manufactured the 2 Polish eagles from his inheritance in 1941. How long he stayed in Switzerland is unknown. Probably he escaped from Switzerland or the Polish government in exile bought him out because according to his in-laws he was also in Italy during the war. The small Italian commemorative badge of the Polish 2nd Corps can confirm his stay in Italy. This could also mean that he had taken part in the battle for Monte Cassino.
How the Polish veteran came to Holland is not very clear. Right after the war the Dutch government had the rule that for every killed Polish soldier in Holland, one Polish veteran may live in Holland. Probably he was one of these Poles that may live in Holland. It should be a very clear explanation of how he met his Dutch wife.
In fact I do not have any personal information about this Pole. The Sikorski institute in London does not give any information to anyone who is not a close family member of the veteran. Even his in-laws have no change because they do not have the same (Polish) family name as him. In all probability the story of the Polish veteran will be unknown forever.
Above from left to right; Italian commemorative badge for the veterans of the Polish 2nd Corps, 2 Polish eagles of the Polish 2nd Rifles Division (Dywizja Strzelcow Pieszych). The Hugunin brothers at Le Locle, Switzerland manufactured these eagles in 1941.
Below from left to right; Médaille des prisonniers civils, déportés et otages 1914-1918. Conferred to civil prisoners, deported people and hostages.
Médaille commémorative 1939-1945 with France bar. Conferred to soldiers who have fought in France in 1940.
Croix du combattant volontaire 1914-1918. Conferred to foreign volunteers who had served in the French Armed Forces.
The belt is a Polish pre war belt for soldiers. Good condition, many stamps and dated 1931.
Footnote; The Médaille des prisonniers civils, déportés et otages 1914-1918 and the Croix du combattant volontaire 1914-1918 should also be conferred after WWII because of a short of the new type medals. Both medals should be coming from pre war stock.
A few people at this forum asked me in their PB for a more detailed picture of the eagles. Here they are.
Sorry for the long story
The badges, medals and belt shown at the pictures below are from an inheritance of a Polish veteran. Maybe they are not the badges that were usually worn by the 1st Polish Independent Airborne Brigade or the 1st Polish Armoured Division but they are nice items and a 100 % original.
The aunt of an acquaintance of mine was married with a Pole. This Pole, a WWII veteran, is already passed away for many years. His Dutch wife just passed away a few years ago. After her decease they cleared out the house and these badges, medals and belt were found. These items where given to me. The family of my acquaintance asked me or I could find out his past because they are interested in it. The Polish veteran seldom spoke about his past, so for them a little is known about him. From the badges and medals I gather the following story;
After the German invasion of Poland in 1939 the Polish veteran fled to France like so many other Poles. The army belt from his inheritance could be from his own Polish pre war uniform.
In France he joined the new-formed Polish Armed Forces. He was incorporated with the Polish 2nd Rifles Division (Dywizja Strzelcow Pieszych). This Division was sent to support the French forces on the Maginot line near to the German Swiss border.
During the German invasion of France in 1940 the Polish 2nd Rifles Division fought together with the French 45 Corps at Clos du Doubs. After heavy fighting’s and being cut off by the advancing Germans, the French 45 Corps and the Polish 2nd Rifles Division were backed up to the Swiss border. The French commander decided to withdraw to Switzerland, where they were interned. For taking part in these fighting’s he should be decorated after the war with the French medals.
His in-laws are confirming his stay in Switzerland because they know that he had a relationship in that time with a Swiss woman. The Huguenin brothers at Le Locle, Switzerland manufactured the 2 Polish eagles from his inheritance in 1941. How long he stayed in Switzerland is unknown. Probably he escaped from Switzerland or the Polish government in exile bought him out because according to his in-laws he was also in Italy during the war. The small Italian commemorative badge of the Polish 2nd Corps can confirm his stay in Italy. This could also mean that he had taken part in the battle for Monte Cassino.
How the Polish veteran came to Holland is not very clear. Right after the war the Dutch government had the rule that for every killed Polish soldier in Holland, one Polish veteran may live in Holland. Probably he was one of these Poles that may live in Holland. It should be a very clear explanation of how he met his Dutch wife.
In fact I do not have any personal information about this Pole. The Sikorski institute in London does not give any information to anyone who is not a close family member of the veteran. Even his in-laws have no change because they do not have the same (Polish) family name as him. In all probability the story of the Polish veteran will be unknown forever.
Above from left to right; Italian commemorative badge for the veterans of the Polish 2nd Corps, 2 Polish eagles of the Polish 2nd Rifles Division (Dywizja Strzelcow Pieszych). The Hugunin brothers at Le Locle, Switzerland manufactured these eagles in 1941.
Below from left to right; Médaille des prisonniers civils, déportés et otages 1914-1918. Conferred to civil prisoners, deported people and hostages.
Médaille commémorative 1939-1945 with France bar. Conferred to soldiers who have fought in France in 1940.
Croix du combattant volontaire 1914-1918. Conferred to foreign volunteers who had served in the French Armed Forces.
The belt is a Polish pre war belt for soldiers. Good condition, many stamps and dated 1931.
Footnote; The Médaille des prisonniers civils, déportés et otages 1914-1918 and the Croix du combattant volontaire 1914-1918 should also be conferred after WWII because of a short of the new type medals. Both medals should be coming from pre war stock.
A few people at this forum asked me in their PB for a more detailed picture of the eagles. Here they are.
Sorry for the long story
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Maj.Cain
- Lid
- Berichten: 1349
- Lid geworden op: 13 okt 2004, 17:07
- Locatie: Nederland
- Contacteer:
3rd. I speak with veterans. They disremember or khaki webbing was blanco.Robspad schreef:I apologize if to be I understood bad. I apologize, but my English is very bad.
I try to clear.
1st. My sentence. Its no use about this copy from ebay.
In Poland it been possible to buy collar patch with metal badge.
Very good copy.
3rd. I speak with veterans. They disremember or khaki webbing was blanco.
What is source this information about blanco webbing ? What be then colour ?
4th. I have unit uniform order for Polish soldiers in operation Market - Garden.
Soldiers who to fly in action and soldiers who directed to action by sea and land ( under the names Seaborne Tails nr.1 and 2.) they have parachuting trousers.
Trousers battledress be packed to bag and bag go with Seaborne Tails.
Apologize, that I be to mistake. This my fault.
I know that Netherlands People are very friendly for Polish veterans.
I see this, when I to be in Holand.
All veterans which I know, they are for Dutch People very large gratitude for memory.
Greetings
Robert
What is source this information about blanco webbing ? What be then colour ?
I ask you this, is the British kakhi webbing the same as the Polish used?
The British para's camoed there webbing with a green blancoe color!
What colour was the polish webbing, i thought it was GREY colour???
Ok lol we will try to understand each other as best possible!
Greetings,
Maj.Cain
Red Devils of Arnhem/Oosterbeek
http://www.156PARA.com
http://www.156PARA.com
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Robspad
- Lid
- Berichten: 72
- Lid geworden op: 17 apr 2005, 16:53
Hi asjemenou !
Thanks. I like very this histories.
Things, which you are have is 100% orginal. These things confirm your story.
Belt - pre-war Polish soldier's belt. ( I would see him in my collection Very willingly
- pretty stamps).
Eagles 2nd Division Rifles. Veteran be internee in Switzerland.
Eagle's example designed Bohdan Garliński in 1941 y. Eagles executed Firm Hugenin Freres in le Locle.
He could run away or in the latter part wars, or after war be to give to II Polish Corps in Italy.
They probably in battle about Monte Cassino does not participate. He have only commemorative badge II Polish Corps. Number 38506 - if see I number well?
I will ask friends. Maybe to be fix surname this veteran. List honoured this badge exist in London only.
Greetings
Robert
Thanks. I like very this histories.
Things, which you are have is 100% orginal. These things confirm your story.
Belt - pre-war Polish soldier's belt. ( I would see him in my collection Very willingly
- pretty stamps). Eagles 2nd Division Rifles. Veteran be internee in Switzerland.
Eagle's example designed Bohdan Garliński in 1941 y. Eagles executed Firm Hugenin Freres in le Locle.
He could run away or in the latter part wars, or after war be to give to II Polish Corps in Italy.
They probably in battle about Monte Cassino does not participate. He have only commemorative badge II Polish Corps. Number 38506 - if see I number well?
I will ask friends. Maybe to be fix surname this veteran. List honoured this badge exist in London only.
Greetings
Robert
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jeroen1944
- Lid
- Berichten: 991
- Lid geworden op: 20 aug 2004, 22:03
Dat zijn ook cunnard patches...Maj.Cain schreef:Hums deze lijken verdomd veel op de repro's de Cunnard verkoopt op Ebay!!101st Michiel schreef:
Deze? Ik weet niet of ze orgineel zijn, zo te zien wel? Jullie?
For our Polish Friend: These look exactly like the ones Cunnard sells on Ebay.com, he is a maker of repro British/Polish insignia!!
Kijkend naar de achterkant durf ik met 75/80% te zeggen dat deze repro zijn!!
Waar heb je deze pic vandaan als vragen mag, als Ebay is weet ik genoeg!!
For Robert: Looking at the back of the patches i will dare to say 75%/80% sure repro, wear did you get this picture if i may ask, if its from ebay then im am sure there fakes!
Hoe duur zijn ze?
What price are they?
Ik denk dat je beste kans om echte insignia te vinden van de Polish para's in Polen zelf is of in Engeland, en altijd ebay in de gaten houden!!
I think your best shot to obtain proper insignia of the Polish para's is either in Poland or in the U.K., and allways keep a sharp look out on Ebay.
Succes, Goodluck!!
Maj.Cain
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Robspad
- Lid
- Berichten: 72
- Lid geworden op: 17 apr 2005, 16:53
Hi jeroen1944!
This is copy. Weak quality.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 39145&rd=1
Orginal collar patch is also in Poland hard to buy
In Poland appear a high quality copy para collarpatch with metal badge. To distinguish from orginal is very hard.
Copy of embroidered collar patch is not good.
Greetings
Robert
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jeroen1944
- Lid
- Berichten: 991
- Lid geworden op: 20 aug 2004, 22:03