Rudolf Hess... after the war.

[Die andere Timo]

Helaas, ik koop geen boeken van pyramidioten.

[Marcfire]

De autopsie rapporten waren dus onnauwkeurig en stonden onder Brits toezicht.

Wat bedoel je met je opmerking pyramidioten??

[Die andere Timo]

Dr W. Spann van het Institut für Rechtsmedizin in München stond onder Brits toezicht? Wat suggereer je? Dat Spann gelogen heeft in zijn post mortem rapport onder druk van de Britten?

pyramidioten: doe even een forum search

[Marcfire]

Eerder dat Spann heeft geconstateerd dat de persoon die overleden is de persoon was die met het vliegtuig in Engeland is aangekomen destijds. Dat die persoon niet de persoon was, die bekend stond als Hess, die in WO1 o.a. een schotwond heeft opgelopen.

Er zijn wel degelijk vreemde zaken gebeurd rond de dood van 'Hess' dat is wat ik in ieder geval gerust durf te verklaren hier.

Ik zal even zoeken wat Pyramidioten is.

Nog steeds denk ik dat het een leuk boek voor je is om te lezen aangezien je wel geinteresseerd bent in het onderwerp en dit boek daar mooi bij past

[Marcfire]

Gevonden..

Thomas is geen lariekoek verteller, hij heeft veel info uit eerste hand en dat maakt dat hij redelijk geloofwaardig is denk ik dan. Maar hoe die aan die info komt staat wel allemaal in zijn boek. Het meeste is voor historici wel te achterhalen

[Die andere Timo]

Tsja, alle ripperologists gebruiken ook zeer geloofwaardige info uit originele documenten en toch wijzen al die "uiterst zorgvuldige en zeer gedegen" onderzoeken naar tien verschillende daders, van katoenhandelaar James Mabrick tot de Britse kroonprins

Zo zijn er ook verschillende zeer geloofwaardige theoriën over Hess. Misschien ben ik te sceptisch maar dat is dan maar zo.

[Die andere Timo]

In Hugh Thomas' book: The Murder of Rudolf Hess, Thomas recalls his medical examination of Rudolf Hess in 1973, whilst Hess was in Spandau Prison. He believed that there was a difference between Hess' medical records from World War I and the torso of the man imprisoned at Spandau. 'The torso cannot lie' wrote Thomas, convinced that the Hess in Spandau was not the real Rudolf Hess.

Thomas was using the theory that Sauerbruck, a German field surgeon, would have carried out an operation on Hess to remove a bullet. This is untrue, because Hess' own correspondence from the period confirms that the bullet had passed cleanly through him. Doctors like Gibson Graham who examined Hess after landing, and Hurevitz a New York surgeon also agreed that there was no major scarring, particularly around the exit wound.

Thomas went to suggest that because Adolf Galland (the Luftwaffe Fighter commander) had been ordered by Goering to shoot down the Messerchmitt Bf 110 of Hess as it flew to Scotland, it could have been shot down, and a Doppelganger put in his place.
Galland's men though had no chance of finding Hess because by the time Goering called him, Hess was too far away to be caught. They took off and after some time returned home without finding Hess. Galland's record of this event is clear. Goering was cleverly completing a Hitler inspired order that was nothing more than a pre-cover-up plot, designed to help prove that Hess was a mad traitor should Hess' peace mission fail. These events led to further speculation about Hess' imprisonment in England, and why he was kept away from the public eye.

The fact that Churchill kept Hess hidden from public view strengthened the theory that the Hess that had been replaced by a double. Other writers, such as Peter Allen and Stephen Prior have suggested Hess was killed in Britain (by intention, or in an aircraft accident with the Duke of Kent) and replaced by a German POW who was brainwashed into being Hess. In illegal experiments by the CIA in Canada involving brainwashing by electrical shock and drug treatments it was proved that a personality can be changed with horrific consequences for the victim. This Allen believes would explain Hess' strange behaviour patterns, and thinner appearance after the war, noticeable at the Nuremburg Trials. There is also evidence to show that a tailor was ordered to replicate Hess' uniform, strengthening this rather dubious theory.

However, it is clear that Hess was probably shot in 1917 with a Russian-made rifle, probably a Nagant. It has a very small calibre bullet. Therefore the exit wound, although larger than the entry wound, would be quite small. The eminent doctors were looking for the wrong evidence. Later, Professor Eisenmenger may have found, according to Hess' son, 'two insipid old scars' from an earlier gunshot wound, which completely disproves the case if true. It probably is, because in 1979 Charles Gabel, the Pastor and Prison Chaplain of Spandau, was told by Hess that two English doctors had visited him recently, looking for the scars. They had found them, entry and exit, but they were not very visible.

Thomas' theory as with all Doppelganger theories associated with Hess does not stand up to scrutiny. Hess laughed about them with Gabel and discussed the various substitution theories. Thomas tried to suggest that Himmler, the head of the SS, the most feared man of the Third Reich, had Hess shot down and replaced by a Doppelganger to displace Hitler. Himmler though was totally devoted to Hitler, and perhaps the one man other than Hess that Hitler could rely on till near the end. Furthermore, Hess' letters from captivity reveal an intimate knowledge for 40 years. Why would a double keep up such correspondence and maintain such accuracy? It simply does not make sense.

All that had changed was Hess' mental state, brought on by the fact that he had to pretend to be mad, and suicidal to avoid telling the true plans of Adolf Hitler. Hess simply loved Hitler. He could not betray him. He was like a woman who knows that her man is cheating, yet is able to forgive him everything. Hess was in awe of the magical power of Adolf Hitler. Years solitary confinement, interrogation, bad food, all took their toll. The Hess of the Nuremburg Trials was rather like an isolated, slightly starved caged animal. His odd behaviour resembled a tiger kept in a small cage: unpredictable, strange, but still a tiger. Hess showed he was not mad to every psychologist who interviewed him.

The Hess who was the major contributor to the book written by Hitler: Mein Kampf, the man who organised the Kristallnacht against the Jews, the man who helped organise death squads, and Hitler's Deputy Fuhrer, was the same Hess that flew to Britain across a dark sea, was captured in Scotland in 1941 wanting peace with Britain at the expense of Russia, and the same Hess that died in mysterious circumstances in Spandau Prison. There was no Doppelganger.

http://www.members.aol.com/LeonardIngra ... anger.html

[Marcfire]

Interessant verhaal, zo heb zijn er weer hele andere invalshoeken over dit verhaal. Wie er gelijk van de doktoren en onderzoekers heeft zal wel nooit duidelijk worden verwacht ik, maar ik vind het super gaaf om dit soort zaken te lezen.

Bedankt voor je commentaren Timo

[Timmeke]

Indificatie-akte van Rudolf Hess


Overlijdensakte van Rudolf Hess


Bevestiging van de dood van Rudolf Hess

[Die andere Timo]

Ik zie alleen drie kruisjes waarvan de URL's ook niets doen

[Timmeke]

Ik heb de gegevens gezien!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Op deze site; de link van Hess onderaan de pagina!

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... okpic.html

[Timmeke]

Afscheidsbrief van Hess...



Please would the Governors
send this home.
Written a few
minutes before my death.
I thank you all
my beloved, for all the dear things
you have done for me.
Tell Freiburg, I am
extremely sorry, that since
the Nuremberg trial
I had to act as though
I did not know her.
I had no choice,
because otherwise,
all attempts to gain freedom
would have been in vain.
I had so looked forward
to seeing her again
- I did get pictures of her,
as of you all.

Your Eldest.

[Mich]

Even over dat afscheidsbriefje:
De familie van Hess beweerd niet dat het briefje een vervalsing is. (Dan is dat ook maar gelijk uit de wereld geholpen...)
Zij zeggen echter wel dat het briefje stamt uit de jaren zeventig. Zij voeren daar 2 argumenten voor aan.

1. Hess gebruikt aan het einde van dit briefje een woord ter afsluiting wat hij al sinds de jaren zeventig niet meer gebruikte.
2. Hij vermeld in het briefje niets over zijn kleinkinderen, waar hij dol op was.

In de jaren zeventig was de toestand van Hess meer dan zorgerlijk. De familie denkt daarom dat hij dit briefje toen geschreven heeft, maar dat het pas in 1987 gebruikt is.

Mich.

[sturmwehr]

tja ik vraag me toch af waarom zou een oude man van in de 90 enkele dage voor zijn vrijlating zelfmoord plege? ...persoonlijk geloof ik hier weinig van.

[Timmeke]

tja ik vraag me toch af waarom zou een oude man van in de 90 enkele dage voor zijn vrijlating zelfmoord plege? ...persoonlijk geloof ik hier weinig van.

Heb ik zelf ook al zitten over 'brainstormen'.. Waarom zou je in godsnaam na bijna 40 jaar gevangenschap zelfmoord plegen? En dan vooral als je weet dat je nog kans hebt om vrij te komen?
Het lijkt me echt onwaarschijnlijk...
Of zou Hess bang geweest zijn om terug 'vrij' te zijn in een wereld die niet echt meer de zijne meer is en zo sterk is geevolueërd..